msb discrete dac vs chord dave

You must log in or register to reply here. Did I mention the remote is perfect? Who knows ?! subjective to a point and that is why we do blind testing and A/B testing with Were constantly improving digital input modules to stay at the forefront of the high-end audio industry, ensuring youre always equipped with the most current digital file formats and interfaces. Given your appreciation of the Pacific Microsonics DAC, I hope you'll get a chance to hear the Berkeley in your system as well. Sound Media Group Pty Ltd. All Rights Reserved. Fixed. The headamp is powerful but not involving. fake by any means necessary jacket. frequency response graphs, CSD waterfall plots, subjective gear reviews. Powered by Invision Community. I listen mostly to classical music, particularly with symphonic work, I prefer DAVE to MSB. Never use!! No matter what ice cream you prefer, I prefer something else. Out of all of the DACs I've The PM2 is very special. I thought the DAVE was just as stunning with DSD as PCM. The clock can be seen as being the heart of the DAC and once again the clocks are made in-house. It's better than the MSB Analog I listened to. in this forum and they are all very good dacs. What effect does reconstruction filter have? The Discrete DAC, the successor and highly improved replacement to the now-famous Analog DAC is the MSB DAC that everyone has been waiting for. November 11, 2020 in Digital Sources, DACs, and Computer Audio. It may not display this or other websites correctly. RCA outputs with the optional output module Voltage: 3.57 Vrms Maximum Impedance > 600 High Gain setting. One name that was thrown around by a few people I know is the Rockna Wavedream. let me know when it's on, I'll make my way down if I can. I did try with just the one power supply and the Discrete remained a very strong performer with the differences being a very slight loss in the sense of separation and definition when listening intently. The other stand out dacs that we like are the Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator, However, there are two inputs for external PSUs and a little doodad/adapter that allows the use of one external PSU. Couldn't agree more. Never say never, but I reckon 99.9% of folk would get to the Discretes level of performance and not be able to justify another 110K to achieve, what I am guessing would be marginal gains though I have not experienced the Select and so cannot say for sure that this would be the case and it may be a total revelation is sonic engineering. $16K Signature DAC sound? Compared to some other similarly priced DACs ($10 - $15k MSRP) I prefer the Discrete with 2 Discrete PS. Unless they have the exact same components as the end user, it's impossible to tell that customer how component X will sound in their system. I think my DAVE sounds great with everything. And what streamer are you using to feed the DAC? The Merriam-Webster online dictionary tells me that the definition of high-fidelity (HiFi) is the reproduction of an effect (such as sound or an image) that is very faithful to the original and it would seem to be reasonable to assume that this is the goal of audiophiles around the world. So I saw the DAC lighting up and it looked fully functional, right down displaying the bit rate etc of the file playing, but no music. Like others said, I'd try first an MScaler with DAVE. Set up is key, cables are super important, server is also Ultimately, reducing noise in a system or improving room acoustics can have a bigger effect. It is bested easily by DACs at $150. Too objective for subjectivists; too subjective for objectivsts. I could not so, after 2 years of trying, I bought it. This is THE place where audiophiles and audio companies discuss vintage, contemporary and new audio products, music servers, music streamers, computer audio, digital-to-analog converters, turntables, phono stages, cartridges, reel-to-reel tape machines, speakers, headphones and tube and solid-state amplification. But it need good system matching. First I want to say that I fully agree that the hobby is Is it better than the Chord DAVE that I raved about a few years ago? Chord Dave vs Mola Mola Makua/Tambaqui vs Emm Labs Dac2x vs Rockna Wavedream IGNORED Chord Dave vs Mola Mola Makua/Tambaqui vs Emm Labs Dac2x vs Rockna Wavedream . and our ears are completely different. Or arm yourself with a nice bottle of red and pay a visit to@Stereophilus. I cant help with comparisons of two of these DACs, but I did hear the Tambaqui up against the dCS Bartok and it was a pretty close call, but ultimately the dCS sounded more analogue and more immersive.However, this was at a time when both units were a similar price. Check out our support page and technical specifications > Click Here, 10100007 - Discrete DAC with Supply- Gallery - 1200px, 10100007 - Discrete DAC with Supplies - Gallery - 1200px, 10100006 - Discrete DAC - Gallery - 1200px, 10100003 - Discrete DAC Badge - Gallery - 1200px, 10100005 - Discrete DAC MSB Logo - Gallery - 1200px, 10100004 - Discrete DAC Jack Panel - Gallery - 1200px, 10100008 - Discrete DAC Basemetal - Gallery - 1200px, 10100009 - Discrete Supply Options - Gallery - 1200px, 10100010 - Discrete Supply Cover - Gallery - 1200px. There are some tonal differences too, but what you prefer will depend on your other equipment and the music you like. This is how MSB describe these modules: Its best to think of our DAC modules as a black box: the modules take the raw digital data in and output a continuous voltage. I don't think any of us have heard the Dave, and we don't have any interest. Wavedream only has a couple hours on it, but from the first note it Can I ask how you procured all those DACs? @shkong78 Thanks for sharing your listening impressions of the Lampizator Pacific vs the MSB DACs as well as what you miss about the Pacific vs your Chord combo. Im outputting directly to the LAB12 (and later a Krell KST100) power amp and so a digital volume algorithm is used where the digital volume control is left at a relatively high output so as not to encounter loss at lower volume levels. CH Precision mono dac with clock and 3 power supplies (7 boxes)----its more spendy---$150k, Merging Technologies NADAC w/power supply and clock---much better now with the clock and power supply upgrades than my previous experience.----around $60k. I have the Berkeley Alpha Reference DAC, waiting for an upgrade. Links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Hifi Pig and Big Pig Media with appropriate and specific direction (link) to the original content. He liked the Mola Mola Tambaqui over these others listed below. Well this is going to set the cat amongst the pigeons for sure. Needless to say given everything talked about so far, the Prime DAC modules are made in-house and they have been making and designing discrete ladder DACs since 1999. I think is a good general rule of thumb, but there are some very transparent passive pre-amps out there. The MSB Renderer was developed using an in-house hardware design running an ultra low noise A5 processor for optimal audio playback performance. Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator. Up to 4X DSD Point 75 EmmLab Dac2 I paid 9K$ for this on 2010. Besides that the MSB looks so much better. Pass Labs INT-60. connection because it eliminates some parts and gets you closer to a direct When a dealer post something you have to take it with a enormous grain of salt. And if I had to guess (given I haven't heard both), I'd guess it outperforms the Tambaqui. Stainless steel buttons arrayed around an elegant volume wheel to optimize performance and response. It would have been a different outcome though with the Cyrus pre-amp I previously owned, which cast a veil over everything. What else should one expect? Do diamonds shine on the dark side of the moon? I have personally not observed this - with either the DAVE or my Mojo. If I want to build a complicated system, I won't consider DAVE because for the position of DAC, I can choose from other brands (Totaldac, NADAC, Rockna, Prismsound 8XR etc) at the same price. Very resolving, tone is on the cold side of neutral but otherwise pretty free of digital nasties compared to the cheaper Chords, and the stage is flatter than Keira Knightley. Focal Utopia ~ LCD i4 ~ ETHER FLOW open/C ~ LCD-2.2/XC ~ Nighthawk ~ K10 custom ~ JH Angie, Chord mscaler // Chord TT2 // Oppo PM-1 (Artisan silver headphone cable) // Beyerdynamic DT880 600 Ohm // WAVE Stream bnc cables // Kef LS50 Meta. But dont take our word for it. Roon/Jriver 22 -> Ayre QX-5 Twenty -> Ayre AX-5 Twenty -> B&W N802D (Transparent Cables). Over the air updates will ensure that your renderer always has the latest capabilities and ultimate convenience. Looks like your budget goes up to ~$20k? At $20,000 I recommend the MSB Premier DAC with two power supplies (KeithRs system). Perhaps thats a bit of an odd example for me to use as its a bit World Music but you are also made aware of the rightness of timing on percussive techno tracks. As I said, its an odd one to describe but you do hear it as it brings a sense of rightness to rhythm tracks. To my ears it makes music sound unnatural. Thats why were thrilled to offer up to 100% trade-in value for existing MSB products when upgrading to a higher performing series. The Prime DAC Module. Its weighty, it feels perfect, its not overly ostentatious and its perfect! Our digital testing has been done over the last 20 + years I hear the new Ayre QX-5 Twenty gives the DAVE a run for its money at $8950 but that is just hearsay. The only thing that I'd really like to see added here is an Aries Cerat. This gives us lots of headroom for future sample rates and audio formats.. I hope to also have an opportunity to listen to a T+A DAC8 (for DSD512) and a Chord Dave (DSD256) in my system soon (with HQPlayer). As a contented Qutest user, I would have hoped for "improved", performance from the Dave. Putting price aside, what are your thoughts about the Hugo TT as an integrated DAC+amp? Any specific reason you wanna replace the Dave? I'm also a very patient person and can wait for the right bit of kit at the right price to come up secondhand. Since opening our doors in 1986, weve been driven by one goal: to craft an unrivaled listening experience for music lovers across the globe. So true jr, the discrete R2R Multibit dacs like the Terminator the Holo, MSB, Total ect ect have a life and a boogie factor to the music that DS dacs lack, and yes they do show up bad recordings. I can see that in an A/B comparison, many other DACs sound more impressive than DAVE/Blu2. Since the Topping D70s SINAD is ~120 dB and it costs ~$650, then given that "money is power" (as opposed to amplitude), I would expect the Chord DAVE SINAD to be at least 120 + 10*log($14,000 / $650) = 133.3 dB. state his/her experience and preferences. Elegant yet commanding, our finishes are available in a matte silver or matte black anodize. The demo model came in brushed aluminium but you can also get black. Not a bad idea Snoop! Put simply, your DAC is ready for the future. This is a dealers email comment to me about comparisons he did. It may not display this or other websites correctly. I mean is it audibly noticeable? so these are less preferred. @astewart8944--two years ago in Feb of 17 i did audition the original Formula dac in my system directly compared to the Lampizator GG 1.5 and the Nagra HD and preferred the Formula for its greater space, lower noise, and more neutral and fast presentation. list the Rockna Wavedream Edition sounds this good, how good does their very important and our preference connection is an i2S connection., Check the true bit-depth of your files and audio engine, Guide to Subwoofer Calibration and Bass Preferences, Know your limits (Sound Exposure Safety Chart), Topping DX7 Pro+ vs Chord DAVE measurements (Cosmos ADC) - DAVE is better in some areas (surprise! With the Bartok now quite a few $$$ more, the Tambaqui represents a fantastic price v performance ratio that would be at home in most highly resolving systems. I've owned a PS Audio You already have a very top tier DAC. Mike, Scott has been absolutely wonderful in his support, despite my purchasing the Found-Music 2A3s used (from Art S.) He has visited once and is planning another visit after the trip your way. Tailored for both the transport and the DACs daily use, our remote brings you closer to the music you love. But digital, potentially, can change things. Amplification: Cyrus Mono x300Signatures. Search: Msb Discrete Dac Vs Chord Dave. It would be absolute suicide for an audio distributor to You'll be shocked by how much you lose by going through a separate preamp. Like x 5 List For such a high entry price I wouldn't take the gamble to go on some recommendation by a stranger whose tastes I don't know. Concluding that there is some kind of problem with using an FPGA vs. what MSB does is not technically supportable. in this forum and they are all very good dacs. The MSB simply sounded more real to my ears and offered a more convincing soundstage and tonality and all the tiny informations in the music where integrated in the musical flow whereas the DAVE simply sounded flat and not realistic to my ears and even lacked those tiny informations. Thanks. @yyzsantabarbara, your dealer quote is interesting, I suspected that the Mola Mola was that good. After a year of listening to various components I'm content. Would love to hear your opinions of which was better and why? It is a manual step which I forgot. Lots of time it The Discrete Power Supply feeds the DAC with dual low-noise power streams that are linear and independent. You already have a very top tier DAC. . There is scale on bigger productions and intimacy on smaller-scale recordings and pieces, It wont make a pigs ear into a sows purse, but its majestic on really good recordings, Its very detailed but not harshly so actually, its a very easy component to fit in a system and live with, Its not cheap and you will want both PSUs once you compare with just one, No analogue inputs to make it the heart of a full system, You know that MSB have stuff that is out of reach financially and potentially better, Price: 11,000 plus 1,650 for a second power supply. Whats Best Forum is THE forum for high end audio, product reviews, advice and sharing experiences on the best of everything else. I may need to reset expectations a bit lower: This is an update to some old DAVE vibration control posts. And in the case of a great DAC with great amps in a system with very low noise, going direct to the amps can be magical. By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies. However, its also very nice to listen to in this system, though I would say it is more accurate/true to the original DAC than our LAB12 DAC or perhaps our Lampizator BIG 7. I found it big bold brash and dynamic but hard cold glary and fatiguing - all the old fashioned things I hated about early digital. As the noise in my system keeps getting lower, the PM2 keeps reaching deeper to find even more musical engagement and purity in standard 16/44 files. dCS Bartok>Chord DAVE>MSB discrete discreteR2R R2R DAVE BartokdCSBartok For the most part, I listened to the MSB through our LAB12 and Krell KST100 amps and TotalDAC D100 speakers. IMHO an audio recommendation in a forum is just an advice on what is worth listening and the reason why we think so. ), Chord Hugo 2 Review (Portable DAC & HP Amp), DAC Noise Modulation: Chord DAVE vs Topping DX7 Pro+, Digital To Analog (DAC) Reviews and Discussion, Amplifiers, Phono preamp, and Analog Audio Review. I'm doing this off the top of my head. I've yet to see a system with direct connections eliminating the preamp which wasn't improved by a adding a good preamp back into the mix! In terms of sound quality, it's the best digital front end I . I have heard the Dave and EMM Labs DAC2x up against aMakua that I subsequently purchased. In my assessment the Makua offered a more open and spacious sound. Both DACs connected directly to power amp using each DACs volume controle. This would help to take your digital playback upa few levels. Perhaps you should consider the Accuphase DC-37 currently for sale in the classifieds? Our publication is supported by its audience. lastly; what I compare my MSB Select II to every day is my top level vinyl and top level reel to reel tape. I'd also look at the Mola-Mola Tambaqui and the new dCS Bartok. The Discrete is a genuine high fidelity DAC and a fabulously built one to boot, add in the modular input flexibility and you have a pretty stunning product with excellent future proofing. as far as direct comparison with other dacs the closest Ive done is listening to the Select II at shows and then listening to other top dacs in other systems at shows. DLNA Protocol. Equipment used: - Roon - 3-in 1-out XLR switchbox - Goldpoint SA2X Attenuator - Benchmark AHB2 Amplifier - Hifiman Susvara headphones (Also used Arya and HD800S but for the most part susvara) Video review of DAVE + Mscaler here: It is worth every penny. I suppose what Im saying (badly) is that the Discrete was true to the file it was being fed and I did enjoy hearing it allowed me to pull small details out of the mix Jazz at the Pawn Shop (DSD128) felt more lifelike and in the room than I am used to and raw tracks such as Phutures Acid Trax did sound rougher and really basically recorded. To be 100% honest we have A/B tested most of the dacs mentioned I haven't yet come across one DAC that is best and will completely dominate other great DACs across all audio evaluation parameters. To cut a long story short: A burnt in MSB Analog DAC with Power Base demoed side to side to a burnt in DAVE was no challenge for the MSB. I know it is a standard talking point by some to suggest that Chord DACs aren't as good with DSD as PCM. There are some tonal differences too, but what you prefer will depend on your other equipment and the music you like. Looking forward to the your additions to the list. This unit came with two power supplies and Ill be playing with the DAC with one and with two to compare and contrast. This leaner and cleaner edge has the effect of adding a level of perceived detail to the listening experience. I also looked at the MSB Discrete DAC but everything thing was an extra cost option (USB, AES/EBU, power supply, etc.,) and expensive. The dCS Bartok was also interesting but, based on my research, I kept coming back to Bricasti. Since opening our doors in 1986, weve been driven by one goal: to craft an unrivaled listening experience for music lovers across the globe. What I do know is that the MSB brings an excellent level of performance by way of neutrality to a system that allows other parts of the system to do their thing its sort of the digital equivalent of a very (very) good cartridge. Im sure it does have a flavour of its own, but from my standpoint, it sounds like a very neutral and transparent DAC. I have great synergy in my system and see no reason to listen to every new DAC out there. those surpass any other digital choice. The video cannot be shown. turns out that with the Extreme USB slightly pulls ahead of the Ethernet with the Renderer, then adding the Pro USB there is now a significant step up over the Renderer. This all-American theme is continued in the companys PCB Shop where they use circuit boards produced for them in Silicon Valley, which are then made ready for the automated adding of the smaller components and hand-fitting bulkier components before washing and inspection. But the differences between great DACs is small. - Up to 32 bit - 768kHz. Supported Formats (Depending on Input) 44.1 kHz to 3.072kHz PCM up to 32 bits 1xDSD, 2xDSD, 4xDSD, 8xDSD Accepts DSD via DoP on all inputs, Digital Inputs 1x RCA Coaxial 1x XLR 1x Word-Sync Out 2x Toslink 2x Isolated slots for optional modules, XLR Outputs Voltage: 3.57 Vrms Maximum Impedance 300 High Gain setting Impedance 150 Low Gain setting. I can only comment on the Emm labs, if u can get a DA2 I think you will be happy "An audiophile is only done when they go to the great brick and mortar store in the sky" Ron Resnick The SQ is amazingly good. The Chord DAVE was also on my list, but I decided to pass (my Chord retailer was very 'pushy' and not helpful). I'll take a look, however I've heard they're on the warm side? The best upgrade for Dave easy. Thanks guys! So take it for what it is. If you have a turntable, for instance, the Discrete will have to act as a standalone DAC and go into a preamplifier/integrated amplifier which will then add its own flavour to the mix. The more observant of you will have read this and noticed that there is no mains inlet. Watts is avidly not reading this in anticipation of the video version he won't watch. Price 9k in the U.K. Up to 1km lossless transmission. I've had some excellent preamps in my system (Dartzeel, Absolare, Robert Koda, Kondo). Btw, my MSB friend and I used the internal analog preamp for MSB and built-in digital preamp for DAVE. the North American distributors for Rockna so I thought I would jump in on this First let me preface my comments by stating that I have not heard a lot of high end DACs in my system. CH Precision C1 DAC. The main reason we took on Rockna was because their MSB thrives off the innovation required to meet consumer demands. 2. My first serious audio system was Garrard turntable, Fisher Int(SS), ADS bookspeaker bought on 1978. and the MSB Select II has a huge advantage over other dacs with its modularity and in-house development which promotes, in a very timely way, keeping the product at the very tip top cutting edge of digital interface developments. The Discrete DAC, The Premier DAC, The Reference DAC, The Select DAC II, Theater Master. The Pro USB was developed to offer a multi part USB solution that features complete electrical isolation and all the performance of MSBs proprietary Pro ISL input. conversation. I'm really anxious to hear more opinions about this DAC and noticed that DAVE hasn't got a thread of its own (only together with Mojo). I have enjoyed my time with the MSB Discrete DAC a great deal. You could spend less and get close to the sound of this DAC, for sure. What is available on models higher up the MSB food chain is the ability to add an analogue module so that you can use the unit as a true preamplifier and DAC. Hmm.. It's pretty funny how everyone gives their personal pet recommendation with the utmost confidence that the buyer will like it. Toggle signature. I havent heard the Rockna. Right now my favorite music player is from the same manufacturer of the Phasure NOS1a DAC: Stealth LPS running XXHighEnd software; again with the same caveat that I haven't heard a lot of the other highly regarded music players in my system. Like the rest of the main body of the DAC and the PSUs, the remote is hewn from a block of aluminium. They're very back ordered and are a pro unit with balanced only outputs and no remote but oh my do they sound spectacular. Anyway, the little bit of extra detail on the strings, the attack, and decay are all there to be heard and its a marvelous thing to listen to. Digital: Jay's Audio CDT2 MK2 CD transport, Modified MHDT Labs Balanced Pagoda DAC. Let us do the work of refurbishing and finding your current electronics a new hometheyll continue to be enjoyed for years to come. Less experience with Dave on DSD, plus Rob claims to no longer decimate. They both use FPGA for their decoding. I had the DAVE for 3years, it is an amazing DAC. Complete electrical isolation Thank you all for your answers. One of the things I jotted down in my notes during this time was the sense of scale the Discrete brought to the music I was listening to big music sounded BIG and more intimate recordings had their own scale too. You must log in or register to reply here. @shkong78 how good is the dave + mscaler vs msb? I believe it comes down to That's just too money for the performance. The only true way for the end user to know what they prefer is through listening in their own system.. Stay updated on Bloom Audio at their. The lo-res display also makes menu ]set-up fiddly because it doesn't have enough space to display words. 2 DAC | Audionet Pre G2 preamp | Audionet Max mono blocks | Vivid Audio Giya G2 Series 2 | 4 JL Audio Fathoms | Echole ICs /SCs / Siltech Classic 550L jumpers, Shunyata PCs / Eth. and this is borne out in the sound that this DAC brings to the party. EAR FILLERS HiFi Pig Playlists on Qobuz, Transatlantic Dispatches: A New World Disorder, Astell&Kern Launch Three New Products At High End Munich 2022. There hasn't been any direct comparison of them with Select II, Trinity DAC, CH D1/C1, Totaldac D12 etc in Hong Kong yet. As it stands, the Discrete offers a very good solution should you be a music lover that plays only digital files and you can go straight into a power amp.

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